SURVIVORMAN LES STROUD MADE A VR GAME ALL ABOUT SURVIVAL, AND HE TOLD US ALL ABOUT IT

SJ: OK, You've basically anticipated and answered my next question, but I'll still ask it just because I've got it all written out so well. Is the game primarily intended as entertainment that also informs or as a training tool that is also fun and engaging?

LS: I'd say more like a training tool that's also fun and engaging. You get to experience certain aspects of cold and hungry and thirsty and all that sort of stuff, and shelter-building without ever leaving your living room kind of thing. So there's a lot of suspension and disbelief with this. But yeah, the second part of what you said, sure.

SJ: So, what were the biggest challenges making the game and what were the biggest surprises and what was the most fun?

LS: The biggest challenge for me first off is that can this not look even cooler in my brain? I'm thinking, can it loo rightk? Well, of course what I'm thinking of is maybe a game I played that cost $32 million to produce. Yes, of course, or what Marvel can do or something like that. But we didn't have a budget like that. And so that was a challenge for me. And then the second challenge more specifically was for the developers, because they would say: “Oh, what about snaring a rabbit?” And then they'd set it up and I'd go: “Well, that's not how you do it.” So after they've spent weeks or months working on something, I would hold their feet to the fire every time saying: “I get it. I know why you'd like to have that in there, but sorry, man, that never happens in survival. Sorry. No.” Or: “You can't go from tinder glowing to flame that quickly. It doesn't happen like that.” So I would hold their feet to the fire and that was challenging for them anyway. For me, I'm just like, nope. So I got to be the last filter; I had the veto power and they were phenomenal about it. So that was the challenges. Second part of that question was...

SJ: Just what were the surprises and what were the most fun parts?

LS: Surprises and most fun surprises were probably for me, mostly just technically how this all works out, which is way too complicated to get into right here in this conversation. But it is a big complicated world building a video game or a simulation, very big, complicated world, and what do I know? That's not what I do. Also, I suppose a surprise was just how willing they were to bend, say it this way, to bend to my wishes because I would say: “Nope, that doesn't work that way. Why don't you do it this way?” And then the most fun, I guess, really was getting to dress up in motion capture suits and doing narration, getting to do that and act out certain scenarios and getting to be right in the game with you. And sure, the avatar is not perfect. There’s been criticism, it doesn't really look perfect, it's not a perfect representation of you and your face. I get it. But come on, man. We're not spending $32 million on this, so it's pretty darn close to it. And that's a lot of fun, seeing me pop up on screen and go: “OK, you're not getting this. If you're going to get your fire going, you got to start from the base.” So I get to ride you a little bit and say, come on, dude. Or congratulate you when you get something well done. So that was fun for me.

SJ: Sure. Moving beyond the game a little bit, what are a few pieces of survival wisdom you wish you could impart to everyone? The simple things along the lines of you sweat, you die.

LS: Survival is proactive, not passive. Now granted, there are times, depending on the variables, when sitting still matters, but a lot of times, even if you're sitting in one place waiting for rescue, proactive survival is important, huge. And I will always say what can you be doing to better your circumstances? You should always be bettering your circumstances no matter what. You walk past some firewood, pick up a piece. I used to say in camping, if I was a guide: “I don't ever want to see any of you guys come back to camp without a piece of firewood in your hand, just one. I don't care if it's a stick, just one.” So that's always vital. And then another one, an adage would be in survival, you are always either dealing with weather or preparing for weather. Always. There's never a moment where it's not one of those two.

SJ: What are a few survival tools you think people should always have on hand? I know you always have your trusty multitool, orange trash bag when you can, but what are a few things? Maybe even just to keep in the car, even if you are not planning to be out in the woods, that just people should always have on hand?

LS: Well, on a serious survival side of it, I would answer a way to get a fire going. Always, always. We get all machismo about our knives. I'll leave the knife at home, let me take a lighter, anything so that I can get an easy fire, because that is always the most vital thing. I mean, gosh, you know what I use my knife for mostly when I'm wilderness traveling? Putting peanut butter on my bagel, that's what I use my knife for, my big beautiful bush knife. So in survival, you're trying to protect your knife. So a way to get a fire going is number one. And then on the more easier side of it in your car and so on, yeah, that extra little supply of food and water matters, but one that's overlooked a lot, a way to signal. Do you have a way to signal people? Is it appropriate that you might have a flare in this situation? When I dive, I have a little underwater scuba diving kit. It's watertight. I open it up. I'm stuck somewhere because the boat didn't come and get me and I was going around this island and doing a scuba dive? There are flares inside that little kit and matches. So a way to rescue, to signal for help, always gets overlooked in a survival kit and it's vital.

SJ: OK, very good. What are a few of the most common mistakes people make when they're stranded in the wilderness? It might be just sitting under a tree, waiting for waiting for help, maybe?

LS: That's a big one, yes, doing nothing. Another one would be not paying attention to water consumption. Taking it for granted. That can be extremely vital depending on where you are. In fact, in many ways I would say that water and the need for it dictates the rest of survival. It's like using a punt, if you will. It's a watershed down from that as far as how you're going to be surviving. And so you have to pay close attention to that.

SJ: And I believe you've said this in the past, but a lot of times people will make the mistake of conserving too much water. Is that correct? Keeping some in your bottle when you're already dehydrated and you should just consume it?

LS: Yeah. The idea of sipping, I dunno, for me, if it's I've got four ounces of water, I'm going to put those four ounces in my body. Now it's when you're in around that level of where there's not a lot of water, I've got a glass of water for the day, I'm going to drink the glass of water and keep it in my body and let it be in my system. And hopefully it's like basically drink as much as you can without needing to go pee. Got it. You can find that balance now. Your body's using the water. That's the better place to keep it, in your body, so long as you're not voiding it.

SJ: What are a few of the places on earth you have yet to visit that you still want to see

LS: Oh, definitely Tibet. That’s a big one for me. Never been to Antarctica. I would like to do that trip, but as a tourist is how I would like to do it. So yeah, those two for sure, because I've been around to so many other places.

SJ: And then with that in mind, are there any places or environments, and you might've already been there once, but that you think are simply too dangerous to even try a survival ordeal in or that you certainly would not return to?

LS: I would not return to being stuck in a life raft on the ocean again.

SJ: I saw that one…

LS: Yeah, no, thanks. That was miserable. And then the answer to the other part of the question is based on people will say, like: “You should be on the side of a volcano!” Why would I do that? Granted, you could break a leg and be stuck on the side of a volcano, but that's not surviving. That's dying slowly and hoping for rescue. So I always chose places and situations that were realistic to us as humans, things we do, going fishing and getting stuck and going hunting and getting lost, those sorts of things. So that was the thrill for me. Some people would mistake it for an adrenaline big survival challenge. It was never that for me. For me it was about connecting to nature. And these are simply great skills that can facilitate your comfort level when you're out in nature.”

SJ: It's funny, I was interviewing the climber, Alex Honnold a couple of weeks ago, and he was saying one of the things that always bothers him is how people think of mountain climbing as so extreme. He was like, it's actually very chilled out and you're just connecting with nature. You're just taking it easy. So that's similar to what you're saying, it's not about the adrenaline, that's about the real experience when you're not creating content for a survival game or a show or a book. What are your personal favorite outdoor activities these days?

LS: I hike a lot, I’m constantly hiking with my dogs and my wife. We do a ton of backpacking, a ton of snowshoeing. And I'm focused. I have so much music coming out in the next two to three years. Just every week, every few days almost, there's a new song and every week there's a new video, it’s constant. So now for years, the way I would do music and nature is that I wouldn't do music in nature. I would be in nature. I'd come home and I would let that distill into a song sitting with a candle on the coffee table and a glass of wine and playing. But I want more and more now to go, I'm going to switch, I'm going to flip that on my own self and sit out there and in a meditative place with my guitar and nature. So, that's another thing that I am doing more of now is getting out there with my guitar and playing. And I'm still an underwater diver. And the thing is, Steve, it's really hard for me to turn off the nerd in me when it comes to survival. If you and I were to go hiking this afternoon, even with no survival in our minds at all, we're just going out for a hike at some point I'm going to go: “Hey man, do you mind if I geek out for a second?” And if it's my wife for example, I'll go: “If you got stuck here, where would you survive?” Maybe I saw something cool and I'm like: “Oh man, I'm being a geek again. I, oh, here I go.” Because I came from being a survival nerd when it was not cool and it was not on TV and nobody was doing it. It was me and a weekend of a few people doing a course in college on survival, total nerding out, I'm still that nerd. So, I don't go out and survive. I don't do that anymore. I don't need to. 70, 80 times I've done it, I don't need to. But I still have that nerd inside of me when I am out there.